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Home Runz's Blog Community Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....

Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....

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EDIT: I should perhaps clarify that I am referring to the EU Mage Forums, not the US forums.  In fact, on my rare visits to the US forums the reverse seems to be true; ie. other classes are supporting the idea that mage damage is not great atm even in Arena and many of the roots are negate by the number of interrupts and dispells available in the game.  I have no idea whether this is because the US servers have a larger PvP player base and therefore more people actually know what they're talking about over there or whether it's just a general difference in mindsets between EU and US players.  Anyway, go look there - it's quite enlightening and kinda makes me wish I could post on their forums to say hi.

If I read one more post in the Mage forums about 'OMG MAGES R SO OP, NERF NAO' and I swear to the Loa I will not be responsible for my actions.  Everytime I see one of these threads I die a little inside and my eyes begin to bleed.  There are a lot of things that really bug me about this attitude towards Mages being posted up in the Blizzard class forums, so in a therapeutic rant I'm going to mention it here.  But I will also touch on posting in appropriate forums and why PvP class players should look at themselves and what they're doing before they start hijacking another class's forum to rant.

1)  All these complaints (and I mean literally all these complaints) come from the PvP community.  Now I'm not against PvP, I happen to enjoy it a great deal whether I'm winning or losing.  But let's be realistic here - World of Warcraft is, at its very heart, a PvE game.  Initially there were no battlegrounds, no arenas, no real items of PvP gear.  These things were added later to appease a small section of the player base.  That's cool and all but let's not get ahead of ourselves here; the vast majority of players subscribe for PvE content.  Major patches and expansion are all about PvE content.  Although there are a great many things I would like to see with regard to PvP (Alterac Valley not being a glorified dungeon run and some good old fashioned world PvP making a return), I would never suggest ruining PvE content for the sake of PvP but this is what most of these PvP whiners seem to want.

Mages in PvE are sort of mediocre at the moment, they're not bad - in fact some very good players are still extremely competitive in terms of DPS - but for many we're in the middle of the pile.  I have no problem with this as such, it inspires me to improve as much as I can, but when you combine this with PvE survivability and with other ranged DPS vastly outclassing us and not having the survivability issues well that's a little bit cheeky (I'm looking right at you Hunters).  But hey, we're all on the same team so meh.  So when some PvP comes crying on my class forum that Mages should be nerfed I get really annoyed.  Yes take the mediocre PvE ranged DPS class and nerf them because all that matters is your PvP team rating so you can wave your gigantuan epeen around.  GTFO you egregious little turd!

2) This is the MAGE CLASS FORUM!!!!  Take your Huntard or Warrior opinion elsewhere.  If you have a genuine, serious complaint about another class post it up in an appropriate forum.  I would suggest, oooo I don't know, maybe THE FUCKING PVP FORUM!!!!!!!1111!!!!!oneexclamationmark!

I go on the Mage forum to read up on my class, to find out about more resources; gear, enchant, gem and spell rotation optimisation.  So I get really pissed when I have to scroll through pages of your self-absorbed whining in my class forum.  DO I go to your class forum and complain about DK AMS? Or Hunter auto-shot?  Or the fact that a Warrior can eat us if they have Recklessness and decide to smack us about with Colossal Smash and Throw Down?  No I don't, I accept that there are some classes that I have to be wary of and adapt my strategy accordingly - I don't sit and bitch about it cos I'm not getting my own way in some other class's forum.

Spamming your unrelenting shite in the Mage forum is going to get you nowhere.

You hear that???  That noise gently drifting in the wind coming from far far away?  That's the world's smallest god damn violin playing just for you fella.  And guess what?  It's playing in your class forum so you best go listen to it there.


3) If you are going to disparage another class because you consider them OP, please at least be constructive if your post.  I have no problem (and actually enjoy) reading post that sensibly discusses class mechanics and where things can be improved, balanced or re-thought.  I'm not arrogant enough to believe that my PvP awesomeness prior to patch 4.0.6 was all down to me - I play Frost and I was aware that in terms of PvP it's a good class to play (btw that's not why I play it - I didn't play as Frost in Wrath and I only switched over in Cata because I like the play style).  I was not adversed to sensible posts about how to rebalance some of the issues with Frost in PvP.  Diminishing Returns, a shrinking of Ring of Frost, rebalancing Frostbolt and Ice Lance - none of this was a problem and I believe at least some of this came from sensible, well thought out and constructive posts made in the forum.

But you know what isn't constructive?  OMFG NERF MAGES NAO!!!  ust given the Blizzard development team some wonderful new insight into class balancing but you sir are clearly a moron. (wanna read the rest of this rant? click the title or the read more button).

4)  If you are going to moan about another class, please - for the love of God - at least be able to play your own class.  Any DK complaining about dealing with Frost Mages just needs to give up now because you honestly haven't paid the slightest bit of attention to some of your abilities.

If you are complaining about Frost Mages without the PvP trinket and reasonable resilience - go learn the importance of gearing correctly (for both PvP and PvE cos if you can't get geared properly for one and you're complaining then I doubt you know how to gear for the other).

5)  Please don't complain about Mages when the fault actually lies with your team mates.  If your healer isn't dispelling roots, if your melee aren't pressuring the Mage to prevent casts or if your DPS isn't CC'ing the mage and he is left to freely kite you around then there are serious issues within your team and you haven't developed the tactics required to take on a Mage within a team.

The single most effective strategy in dealing with a Mage in PvP is to train him, this is because they are the easiest class to lock out in Arenas and, if you're coordinated, in a rated BG as well.  Mages have poor survivability (glass cannons) so unless they are supported by healers (probably at the detriment of other team members) it is relatively easy for melee classes to focus on them and pin them.  As soon as mages are pressured they can't cast as they must focus on living.

6)  Please remember, and I have said this so many times before, PvP is not balanced around one on one fights - they're primarily balanced for 3v3.  Now you may be in a 3v3 team but if you're going toe to toe with a Mage then that is a 1v1 fight, you will probably lose.  truth is you cannot reasonably expect Blizzard to balance classes on a 1v1 basis - it will not work.  Even if they had separate PvE and PvP talents/spells it probably still wouldn't work.  Stop expecting to the game to conform to what you want it to be (cos you want to prove how uber l337 you are by being able to take on every class) - learn what the mechanic of the game are as they stand.  Develop your team's strategy and tactics to deal with the different class combinations.  Frost Mages are a good PvP class, they are an excellent addition to most arena teams but they are not invincible gods of doom.  With the right strategy they can be overcome, just the same as any other class out there.

So please, before you post your frankly selfish, uninspired and moronic forum troll in the Mage Forums ask yourself these questions:

  • Is this the appropriate forum to post this in?
  • Are my concerns valid or am I nerd raging because I just got thrashed by a better team or player?
  • Do I have full resilience?
  • Do I have decent PvP gear or did the other guy have better?
  • Did I correctly use all my abilities?
  • Did I properly search the internet/theorycrafting sites and see if there better ways of playing my class or learn new tricks I didn't previously know?
  • Did my team mates all do their job properly or did they leave me to die?
  • Did I leave my team mates to die before getting munched by a Mage?
Last Updated on Tuesday, 22 March 2011 12:15  


0 # RE: Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....Castilo 2011-03-21 12:00
OMG but mages are just far too OP bliz nirf them. i mean in pvp they kill me so quick and in pve i cant touch them!.

by now runz youve realise im been sarcastic and are proberbly on a plane to my house, that aside, mages are far from OP.
when the content was fresh and we were all in blues, it was hard for anyone to beat a mage (especially fire) but after much work and a truckload fo gear for both us and the mage, i can comfortably sit at least on the same Dps as him now :P
Pvp wise, frost mages have and always will be the number 1 cause for bitching. "omg it can kite me and freeze me and counterspell me". what people forget is that their squishier than playdough, and as soon as you get them without their blink or thier ice armor, they will go splat quick.
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0 # RE: RE: Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....Zubius 2011-03-21 12:26

What is mana mana, Carl? xD

In PvP case frosts were n1 coz of multitarget longtime CC & some survability (shields-barrier). But now they have all same + big dmg.

In PvE case, imho, as i understand after a WotLK raiding, dps is a crap. For raid profit u should not die, not kill any1 & do a damage.

sudo apt-get install head
sudo apt-get install hands

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0 # RE: RE: Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....Runz 2011-03-21 12:32
I know, I know - I remember all through Wrath but it seems to have reached new heights in Cataclysm, especially since we got Ring of Frost and our damage got buffed so we could compete in PvE.

But you hit the nail right on the head dude, we squish so easy and if we're trying not to be squished then we're not causing serious damage. If half these people whining were geared properly or bothered looking up tactics then they would find that (in a team scenario) they could overcome mages. I'm not saying it would be a cake walk but it can be done. Put it this way, if I get stun locked by a rogue or feral kitty in a BG I have to accept my fate. I don't complain about it because if I'm on my own I am susceptible to rogue type DPS - this is what counter classing is all about. If I have support, however, then it may be a different story because we work together to overcome nasty kittehs (I have the most trouble with feral kittehs). I don't sit and bitch about it or whine in forums.

On the other side of the coin, Mages were owning in PvE for a while but after a lot of hotfixing they're not top dog anymore and you do have to work hard to be really competitive. Oddly enough, I never see complaints about mages from a PvE perspective (hmm I wonder why).
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+1 # RE: Just One More 'OP' Post in the Mage Forums and I Swear.....Reegis 2011-03-24 13:57
Nearly every pvp thread I go into I see people complaining about Frost Mages being overpowered, just Frost Mages. When in reality in semi-high arena (lets say 2.2k+) mages aren't even that hard to deal with.

At the high end of PvP, we think Frost mages are balanced. It’s everything below that where they can be frustrating to handle. We need to figure out ways to affect the latter without affecting the former. One solution is to take some of their control away, but make some of the remaining abilities undispellable. Those spells are always dispelled in high-end games, but less often in lower-end games.

Take a deep breath and relax, even if whole forums are full of "nerf mages!!!1!1!!1eleven", Blizzard isn't going to nerf you based on the outcome of these threads.

People run around in 500 resilience and say that mages do high damage, while their damage is the lowest of all casters, excluding warlocks single target.
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0 # So TrueRunz 2011-03-24 19:27
It is mainly aimed at Frost Mages because people complain they have too much control mixed with too much damage. But you are absolutely right at the lower levels Frost mages are a bitch because people don't have (or don't stack) enough resilience.

My personal concern is not that they will nerf frost mages because I agree they won't. My concern though is how the PvP affects Frost Mages in PvE - although I maintain we are still viable in a raid environment we are not as competitive as other specs and it's PvP balance that seems to be holding the spec back in PvE - the forum ranting from people are largely just QQ'ing doesn't help this.

Btw many thanks for the quote, I missed that one XD
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